Table not doing much

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brad
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Re: Table not doing much

Post by brad » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:53 pm

That is such a cool looking table!

Much, much MUCH better looking than mine :) The blue LED's look better as well. Congrats on a brilliant build :)

I think there a few others who have made their own table - I'll have to check the instructables comments.

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by cnribbens » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:38 pm

Thanks, but without your instructable this table would never have become reality. So thank you and also for the feedback!

Blue is indeed a cool color, only downside is that they are crazy bright :lol: The glass also makes a big difference it looks great.

The table is an old IKEA table I bought for 5 bucks, that I tweaked and restored, cheaper than buying all the wood :P

I'm probably going to tweak the game a little bit (for example start with just one ball and add scores) because with 5 balls it's chaos! But now I'm going to enjoy the game for a while :mrgreen:

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by brad » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:16 pm

Grab for yourself the RetroBall code and see if you can modify it to suit the slightly smaller screen. That way you get all the cool game play of RetroBall!

I would see about heading to your local plastic shop and get some tinted acrylic to put underneath the glass. I used it for RetroBall and it makes it much easier to look at and play.

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by cnribbens » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:55 am

Yeah I was looking at a film to stick on the glass, that´s maybe even better. I need to try out some different films though.

I wonder about the Retroball code, does it just work when I upload it on the board (it misses some lines then ofcourse)?

And if I'm right the board supports the extra lines of LED's for retroball, so I only need to add a line of LEDs on every side to get the full retroball experience? That would be a cool upgrade I still have room for an extra line of LEDs :D

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by brad » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:00 am

Actually you're right, you can fit the extra LED's on the super pong table board.

the only piece of code that needs to change is the DisplayGraphics routine. it should actually be quite a simple process :)

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by cnribbens » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:35 am

Ok awesome, before I drill extra holes for the LEDs I want to try the code first (so everything works and is displayed, but only missing the extra lines. Because then I know for sure it works.

I've looked into the code and most of the functions should just work, only changes are:

- The device clock etc ( will the chip be able to handle it, CPU Speed is lower?)
- Displaygraphics
- Port setup
- Controls (right ports, Retroball only uses one button, I could make both buttons do the same thing)
- Audio/ PlayThisSound function (I should add a speaker, just add the - to ground and the + of speaker to one of the extra ports on the board and a resistor + and port :D)
- The part from 'start of the program' and the ports

The only problem is, I have experience with arduino and C# (I'm a game design student) but micro controllers are new for me. The display part is like abracadabra for me right now(and I think also the most difficult part in general), the code between the two versions are also pretty different. But this started as a learning process :P

It's also hard because first of all I didn't code both programs and didn't design both boards :P

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by brad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:30 pm

It should be fine to drive just two extra rows of LED's. I needed the retroball version to be faster because the data is sent to the display serially whereas the super pong table is parallel.

As for all the code, I will need to have a bit of a look to see what might be involved.

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by cnribbens » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:30 am

All the help would be awesome! The hardware step I can handle :P

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by brad » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:03 pm

I spent a few minutes with it this morning and have something that works (hex and source code attached in zip file)

A few things to note:

- The mode select button on you super pong table is your new single button for retroball.
- the screen is back to front, so you will need to swap your anodes around (it could be done in code but takes a lot of processing power and would flicker pretty bad)
- The clock speed really needs to be doubled so you get rid of all flicker
- you will need to expand your screen to 32x32 pixels to use it properly - at the moment you can only see two of the paddles.

Having said that - it is a fully working version of retroball - for you super pong table folk!
Attachments
RetroBall Code for Super Pong Table.zip
(29.81 KiB) Downloaded 198 times

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by cnribbens » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:29 am

Totally awesome Brad!!!

Using only one button is no problem (maybe I connect both to the same port, so I don't end up with a hole or not working button).

Expanding the screen and switching the anodes is no problem, I'm only 30 LEDs short, so thats cool.

So I see the clock speed is still 8 mhz? So what is the problem with the clock speed?

Ofcourse I'll post an update!

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by cnribbens » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:48 am

Ok, I uploaded the code to my current set up and I know understand the clock speed. The flickering is indeed visible.

So I wanted to double the current 8 mhz to 16, but I'm missing the RNDByte.bas file. I found the RndByte here: http://www.sfcompiler.co.uk/wiki/pmwiki ... rGenerator

Oh I see now the free version of swordfish has a memory limit. And as far as I can see you can't export to a hex file in swordfish.

And I guess everything is going twice as fast with doubling the speed? So a delay should be added I guess?

But hey it already works with a mirrored screen (hardcore mode hahaha)

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by bitfogav » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:35 am

Yes you are limited to the amount of memory you can use in the Swordfish free version, Im not sure that Retroball or the Super Pong Table code will compile in the free version due to this.
Also to double the clock speed, it isn't as easy as changing the "Clock = 8" to "Clock = 16" in code, Brad is using the internal clock on the 18F4550, 8mhz is the fastest that the internal clock can run at.

But there maybe a very hacky option and thats to make up a crystal/capacitor add on board?, I say hacky because you will need to solder a wire to the one OSC pin thats not connected to any other part of the board. The other OSC pin is connected to the Expansion port terminal C. This will then allow us to use an External Osc.

Then all you need is a 20mhz crystal and two caps 22pf, then im sure we could change the code and even have the clock running at 48mhz if we need to :)
xtal_caps-500x500.jpg
xtal_caps-500x500.jpg (6.78 KiB) Viewed 5983 times
Example of Osc board:
hacky add on board.jpg
hacky add on board.jpg (6.76 KiB) Viewed 5983 times
If you don't know what Voltage your country is using, you shouldn't be doing electronics ;-)

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by brad » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:20 am

cnribbens wrote:Ok, I uploaded the code to my current set up and I know understand the clock speed. The flickering is indeed visible.

So I wanted to double the current 8 mhz to 16, but I'm missing the RNDByte.bas file. I found the RndByte here: http://www.sfcompiler.co.uk/wiki/pmwiki ... rGenerator

Oh I see now the free version of swordfish has a memory limit. And as far as I can see you can't export to a hex file in swordfish.

And I guess everything is going twice as fast with doubling the speed? So a delay should be added I guess?

But hey it already works with a mirrored screen (hardcore mode hahaha)
The free version of swordfish only allows you to use 256Bytes of RAM (which is alot) however, not quite enough for RetroBall to compile which requires 316Bytes of RAM. I can add some code to it so that both buttons do the same thing - that way you don't have to mess with any hardware.

The reason I didn't increase the clock speed was because all the delays would then need to be fixed up for all the ball speeds etc... But let me know how you go with building your hardware (I.E. extra LED's and switching the anode connections) and I'll see if I can fix the code.

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by cnribbens » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:00 am

Ok, I´ll update first to the extra LEDs and switching the anodes. Drilling all the extra holes and connecting them to the existing matrix. I need to disconnect the anodes and cathodes to get good access for drilling the holes. This should go without any problems, the only thing is I need to order some extra LEDs (this will take a couple of weeks bummer), I´m a couple short, then I can also order a crystal (because then we can upgrade this puppy :P) I already have the caps and a universal prototype board. I saw that indeed the connection 30 is free, the OSC1. It's indeed a little bit hacky, but we could make it pretty nice.

Thanks in advance for all your effort, because without I wouldn't have come this far!!!!!

And adding a crystal would be pretty cool to make everything run smooth! But first drilling the holes!

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Re: Table not doing much

Post by brad » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:24 pm

Any progress on your table Or are you still awaiting parts?

I just thought. The 18f4550 might have pll which means you wont need an external oscillator. Let me read Into it...

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